Def better than any of the alternatives but guy needs to study some more about racism
the hubub over his commments on racism was mind-numbing
im not really a bernie man but his comments, from a political stantpoint, make sense. his political strategy must be one of striking things on a material level, making promieses on the basis of changes in social perception is very vague
so yeah on his side to say that he'd fight racism by fighting structural inequality on a material level is the best strategy he could use. because it's attainable, it's something he can actually do, rather than change the interrelational aspects of opression. on one mandate, anyway.
tldr people took it as him saying that racism = material inequality; i dont really know much of the man, but i doubt that's all he thinks, rather i think it's his political strategy, and that's smart
That isn't my problem with it, my problem is that he doesn't seen to get black people's perception or their frustration, he doesn't know how to deal with their anger and it leaves him surprised which it shouldn't. As a relatively wise and experienced man he should be more aware of people's lives and legitimate reactions and be more prepared to face them. I don't expect any political figure to draw out a plan to end racism or sexism that doesn't make any sense
Post by i'm very angry on Aug 5, 2015 19:58:14 GMT
In 2015 if u're running for office and u want to be taken seriously u need to know ur society and its problems, i don't mean have a solution to end inequality but at least be able to acknowledge it on all levels, not just the one that suits u best and it would be best if u didn't act baffled at an audience that is expressing legitimate concerns. After all u're running for president and u don't get free pass cards
Post by i'm very angry on Aug 5, 2015 20:08:19 GMT
Like most people concerned about class and fighting against it seem to focus completely on that as if it was the end-all of all problems, solve class inequality and u've got the ultimate solution to all oppression, but that's not how things work and it's been proven again and again that abolishing class doesn't abolish all else, and not having an immediate solution is not good reason enough to not adress the problem
That's what most people have been complaining about and saying that he shouldn t talk about just because he can't fix it with a magic wand is bullshit
Like most people concerned about class and fighting against it seem to focus completely on that as if it was the end-all of all problems, solve class inequality and u've got the ultimate solution to all oppression, but that's not how things work and it's been proven again and again that abolishing class doesn't abolish all else
well a) off the bat i can't think of a point where all class was abolished (class in marxist terms, right? "class" is elusive)
b) isn't that more the case that people expect polititians to tell them what they want to hear? because if you want platitudes on equality i have a world of hillary clintons to show you
c) I don't think that "most people concerned about class and fighting against it seem to focus completely on that as if it was the end-all of all problems", nor anymore at any rate, if anything the class fundamentals of capitalism seem to be left on the backburner for contemporary social movements, focusing much more on ill-defined - more often than not contradicting - identity politics
but i'm straying. I maintain that an effective movement must contemplate effective change on the short-term, and that is a material issue.
about how bernie sanders reacted specifically i rally dont know much more about the guy i know he does have a lifetime of showing up (photos prove it at any rate) when race issues bring social movements together, whether or not he "grasps" the whole issue I can't really say. However I'd also point out that he's running his campaign on a grassroots movement call, so even him not being up to snuff on how to deal with recent social movements can be counterbalanced with the fact that he's working on creating platforms for them to organize without the need for him to be white/man/cis/splaining over it
anyway lmao democrats and useful revolutionaires gathering the leftist vote :thup: :thenewcare:
Post by i'm very angry on Aug 5, 2015 23:06:49 GMT
You don't need an example of absolute abolishing of class for that, despite all arguably ill-applied cases, communism/socialism has existed/exists and it has never been a gateway to resolving racial or gender inequality because neither are based on economic inequality; they relate and move alongside but do not depend on one another.
Lol hillary. You have to give it to her though, she understands votes and knows where to look for them. But pointing out to a politician running her campaign adapted to accomodate modern movements even though she has no interest in them/they go directly against everything she ever stood for isn't really a good enough argument against me expecting a politician to talk about pressing matters more instead of only being passionate about a single aspect that only solves some people's problems. I get it, wealth and poverty need to be adressed, but people are dying and you can't just not talk about it. No one says bernie is racist or hasn't done a lot for the civil movements since decades, but i'm saying it's not enough. At least not when you talk about economic inequality and not racial inequality that is not related to just class. It's not enough when people are raising their voice and you are surprised. I'm not a follower, from the little i've heard about him i like the guy, i just wish someone fighting economic inequality on the front lines would be equally as passionate about racial and gender inequality because i know those aren't solved alongside. If you don't address them specifically they aren't addressed at all.
Sanders and others of the same school of thought throughout history have talked multiple times about their firm belief that racial and gender inequality are byproducts of economic inequality and as such will be solved as a consequence, and that is exactly the issue i'm talking about
You don't need an example of absolute abolishing of class for that, despite all arguably ill-applied cases, communism/socialism has existed/exists and it has never been a gateway to resolving racial or gender inequality
I don't think that's fair to say. Socialist countries have been in the forefront of that struggle and I'd say most progressive politics either come directly from or are at least indirectly inspired by socialist politics (the importance of the social state and welfare in the advancement of minority rights I think it's undeniable). which doesn't justify the fair criticism that early socialist movements (including the mighty russian revolution) were male-dominant and homophobic (they were, much within the paradigm of the time)
but yeah you're right in what you say that sanders is not within the well-rounded intervenctionist discourse that I, at least, would like to hear. but it is a touchy subject, knowing that for him as a white man to be forefronting black issues within a lived experience standpoint (which is a lot of what you seem to be talking about, a lot of what identity politics are about too) is walking on the knife edge of whitesplaining. so if his strategy is saying "look, this is what I can talk about - material inequality, class stuff" while building the political structures for the opressed to effectively intervene with the authority of lived experience (which he claims to be one of his main goals, the whole grassroots thing) sounds to me like a smarter political strategy than wandering into the muddy waters of subjective power relations
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